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P13701
Sat 2022-10-08 16:03:11
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reply
8bce6d214014aafa5bc05f5e42879f8762a730380135d2c57f511af8e89d98e4.png
10.7 KiB 561x555
You want to connect the points A, B, C and D to each other by drawing the connection with a marker. But you want to use the minimum amount of ink of the marker.
What is the shape that you will draw?
Referenced by:
P13709
P13704
Sat 2022-10-08 16:20:01
link
reply
You'll make a cross, thus spending
[tex:
4
\sqrt
{2}
\approx
5.7
]
units of ink. Wasn't that too easy?
The "obvious" solution would have been to connect the points ACBD in order thus spending 6 units of ink, I guess.
Referenced by:
P13714
P13715
P13708
Sat 2022-10-08 16:53:17
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reply
091a18d73aaf1f9a45c2f9b465a803cecf1d1332b6877b20a7c7cdab6cd02c50.jpg
200 KiB 1200x1649
cfdef66b75baf0c6d131feb6e82700bd11e38831bef13f2fba97a09e4a5eb9ee.png
4.36 KiB 240x240
True chads use 0 ink by making a torus
Referenced by:
P13715
P13714
Sat 2022-10-08 17:47:14
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reply
P13704
There is a better way.
P13715
Sat 2022-10-08 17:52:22
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reply
P13704
That seems correct. Can you prove it?
P13708
Lol. I'm sure OP meant to imply that the problem was in an euclidean plane
Referenced by:
P13897
P13897
Sun 2022-10-09 20:04:48
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1 - basic shape.png
13.6 KiB 457x454
2 - fermat point.png
55.5 KiB 504x989
3 - fermat point.png
60.3 KiB 485x989
4 - length.png
61.9 KiB 489x981
This puzzle was more interesting than I initially thought.
P13715
I can't, because it isn't. I have, however, found the correct solution. With a proof as well.
First of all, the shape HAS to look like the first image. E and F may be confounded, but additional intersections would be redundant. To minimize the total length, points shall only be linked by straight lines as well.
E (respectively F) is the Fermat point of the triangle AFD (respectively BCE). As such, E (respectively F) must lie somewhere on the [GF] (respectively [EH]) line. As a result, E and F both lie on the vertical axis.
We can then finalize the construction of the Fermat points to obtain the final position of E and F.
To obtain the total length, we observe that all three angles surrounding the Fermat point are 120°. As a result, the angle ADE is 30°. We can now obtain the length of each segment.
[tex:
DE=EA=BF=FC=
\frac
{
1
}
{
cos(30°)
}
=
\frac
{
2
}
{
\sqrt
{3}
}
]
and
[tex:
EF=2-
\frac
{
2
}
/
{sin(30°)}
]
Therefore,
[tex:
L=2+2
\sqrt
{3}
]
Referenced by:
P13898
P13899
P13901
P14037
P14756
P15430
P13898
Sun 2022-10-09 20:14:28
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P13897
I messed up when copying my notes.
[tex:
EF=2-2 tan(30°)=2-
\frac
{
2
}
{
\sqrt
{3}
}
]
[tex:
L=2+2
\sqrt
{3}
\approx
5.46
]
Referenced by:
P13901
P13901
Sun 2022-10-09 20:25:59
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reply
P13897
P13898
Yep, this is the solution.
P14037
Mon 2022-10-10 17:16:24
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d535bb3f706711ccb8ce30b710d6e7a9c101376454772e2663b77a44241ef8e6.png
25.4 KiB 1068x274
In an equilateral triangle the shortest way to link all vertex is to pass by the center. In a square, one should use
P13897
's construction. How could one extend the construction in order to find the shortest way to link all vertex of an n-sided regular polygon?
Referenced by:
P14038
P14038
Mon 2022-10-10 17:27:30
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hexagon-change.png
13.1 KiB 510x528
P14037
Given the
[tex:
\geq
120
^
\circ
]
angles, I conjecture that for hexagons and above, going around the outside is optimal. I can say at least that it's a local minimum in the sense that it's not improved by changes like pic related (which was not true for the square).
Referenced by:
P14214
P14041
Mon 2022-10-10 18:17:42
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reply
58d1e9b6503e1cef221c75669045111ee4e01725db394c3c80f60ad63d3c0f76.png
19.8 KiB 393x359
That may be true, but your explanation isn't very convincing because there are topologies other than the one you used.
Picrel is
[tex:
3
\sqrt
3
\approx
5.2>5
]
though
Referenced by:
P14214
P14214
Tue 2022-10-11 19:26:18
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reply
third-option.png
43.8 KiB 841x788
3options.png
22.3 KiB 1135x400
P14041
Yes, thus a conjecture. I haven't gotten anywhere on a general proof yet, but I think for the specific case of the hexagon, I think I can show the only cases we need to consider are these three. The first two options are
P14041
and
P14038
, and the third is the second pic attached. Will post some more details later on how to calculate the points for each case and show that the points found are unique.
Referenced by:
P14215
P14756
P14215
Tue 2022-10-11 19:26:49
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reply
P14214
>second pic attached
ended up being the first pic
P14756
Sun 2022-10-16 22:48:25
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reply
third-option-construction.png
32.0 KiB 621x923
P14214
>Will post some more details later on how to calculate the points for each case and show that the points found are unique.
The solution has to be some sort of tree, and as
P13897
pointed out, we can represent any tree as a tree in which each point except the terminal ones has three neighbors, with some points confounded. Every point except the terminal ones has to be at the Fermat point of its neighbors, which means that the lines to the three neighbors form 120° angles, except in the case where the three points form an angle greater than 120°, in which case the Fermat point is the vertex of that angle. This exceptional case can only occur when the vertex is one of the terminal points, since otherwise we obtain a smaller total length by changing the connections to the confounded points. For the regular hexagon, we don't have to worry about this case, since none of the points can be outside the convex hull of the points we're connecting, which limits any angle at one of the vertices of the hexagon to 120°.
The three possible ways of connecting six points by such a tree are shown in
P14214
. Let's consider the third case. We know point G which connects to A and B must lie on the circle centered at H, which by the inscribed angle theorem must be constructed to make m∠AHB = 360° - 2*m∠AGB = 120°. If we take the third line segment GJ and extend it in the opposite direction, it must intercept the circle at a point I located 120° away from A and B, again by the inscribed angle theorem. We can repeat this process with I and C to find a point L that must lie on the extension of JP. The same process for the lower half of the hexagon gives us another point R on the extension of JP. Drawing the line between them and finding their intersections with the circles gives us J and P. We can now connect J with I to find G, and P with O to find M.
F = (0, 0)
E = (1, 0)
A = (-1/2, √3/2)
B = (0, √3)
C = (1, √3)
D = (3/2, √3/2)
H = (-1/2, 5√3/6)
I = (-1, √3)
K = (0, 4√3/3)
L = (0, 2√3)
N = (3/2, √3/6)
O = (2, 0)
Q = (1, -√3/3)
R = (1, -√3)
J = (3/7, 5√3/7)
P = (4/7, 2√3/7)
G = (1/14, 11√3/14)
M = (13/14, 3√3/14)
AG = DM = CJ = FP = JP = 2√7/7
BG = EM = GJ = MP = √7/7
total length = 2√7 ≈ 5.3 > 5
So for the specific case of the regular hexagon, going around the outside is indeed the best.
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